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	<title>Comments for Disillusioned Discordian</title>
	<atom:link href="http://moon23.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://moon23.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Civil Rights-Politics-ID Cards,-Walking-Morris Dancing-Philosophy-Pseudo-Philosophy/Mumbo Jumbo.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:47:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Blog Review &#8211; Improviseadaptovercome by moon23</title>
		<link>http://moon23.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/blog-review-improviseadaptovercome/#comment-1408</link>
		<dc:creator>moon23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moon23.wordpress.com/?p=464#comment-1408</guid>
		<description>Excellent, i&#039;ll look forward to arguing why I think tripple jump is not only a proper jump but the best jump ever</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent, i&#8217;ll look forward to arguing why I think tripple jump is not only a proper jump but the best jump ever</p>
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		<title>Comment on Blog Review &#8211; Improviseadaptovercome by Mikey X</title>
		<link>http://moon23.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/blog-review-improviseadaptovercome/#comment-1407</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikey X</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moon23.wordpress.com/?p=464#comment-1407</guid>
		<description>Thankyou kindly. It&#039;s basically an effort to force myself to write again, since I seem to spend a lot of time ranting about various things in various places. Might as well keep it together. To make some effort at coherence.

Future topics include the militarizaton of space, and why the triple jump is not a real jump.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thankyou kindly. It&#8217;s basically an effort to force myself to write again, since I seem to spend a lot of time ranting about various things in various places. Might as well keep it together. To make some effort at coherence.</p>
<p>Future topics include the militarizaton of space, and why the triple jump is not a real jump.</p>
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		<title>Comment on In defense of Liberty &#8211; Comes the Dailymail? by moon23</title>
		<link>http://moon23.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/in-defense-of-liberty-comes-the-dailymail/#comment-1406</link>
		<dc:creator>moon23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moon23.wordpress.com/?p=451#comment-1406</guid>
		<description>Bizzare innit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bizzare innit</p>
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		<title>Comment on Extreme Urban Photography by moon23</title>
		<link>http://moon23.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/extreme-urban-photography/#comment-1405</link>
		<dc:creator>moon23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moon23.wordpress.com/?p=456#comment-1405</guid>
		<description>Great Pic, I although be careful there could be a bomb that goes off when the clock hand reaches Midnight!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Pic, I although be careful there could be a bomb that goes off when the clock hand reaches Midnight!</p>
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		<title>Comment on In defense of Liberty &#8211; Comes the Dailymail? by metacognitionx</title>
		<link>http://moon23.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/in-defense-of-liberty-comes-the-dailymail/#comment-1404</link>
		<dc:creator>metacognitionx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moon23.wordpress.com/?p=451#comment-1404</guid>
		<description>I, too am deeply amazed that the Fail seems to have served some genuine purpose in furthering the greater good, rather than endlessly harping on about Gay Pigeon AIDS Which Stole My Baby From Polish Cannabis Hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too am deeply amazed that the Fail seems to have served some genuine purpose in furthering the greater good, rather than endlessly harping on about Gay Pigeon AIDS Which Stole My Baby From Polish Cannabis Hell.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Extreme Urban Photography by metacognitionx</title>
		<link>http://moon23.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/extreme-urban-photography/#comment-1403</link>
		<dc:creator>metacognitionx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moon23.wordpress.com/?p=456#comment-1403</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flickr.com/photos/churchoftheblackpanda/2561631171/in/set-72157604598089423/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;THIS&lt;/A&gt; was a deliberate attempt at looking &quot;dodgy&quot; while photographing municipal buildings in Cardiff, earlier in the year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/churchoftheblackpanda/2561631171/in/set-72157604598089423/" rel="nofollow">THIS</a> was a deliberate attempt at looking &#8220;dodgy&#8221; while photographing municipal buildings in Cardiff, earlier in the year.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Private Bailiffs to be given power to use force and violence to reclaim debts. by Defending People &#187; Three Notable Developments Across the Pond</title>
		<link>http://moon23.wordpress.com/2008/12/23/private-bailiffs-to-be-given-power-to-use-force-and-violence-to-reclaim-debts/#comment-1400</link>
		<dc:creator>Defending People &#187; Three Notable Developments Across the Pond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moon23.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-1400</guid>
		<description>[...] Government-Sanctioned Private Self-Help Debt Collectors (Disillusioned Discordian via Charon QC) The government has been accused of trampling on individual [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Government-Sanctioned Private Self-Help Debt Collectors (Disillusioned Discordian via Charon QC) The government has been accused of trampling on individual [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Greek Anarchist fight back for Freedom by ficus</title>
		<link>http://moon23.wordpress.com/2008/12/08/greek-anarchist-fight-back-for-freedom/#comment-1399</link>
		<dc:creator>ficus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moon23.wordpress.com/?p=406#comment-1399</guid>
		<description>All around Greece, there are thousand cases of people having been subjected to harassment and brutality by the Greek police (in police stations and on the streets, while going out or returning home, during non-violent demonstrations and concerts, war of words, war of eggs or war of stones), and at least hundreds have witnessed the police’s preference for attacking peaceful or underage protesters, passer-bys, and people with cameras. [1]

At this stage (December 25th), around 246 people face trial and 66 have been detained. At least 50 immigrants are to be deported and more than 50 are school students of which 17 &quot;arrested under the terrorist act&quot; (Larisa city) [2].

Myrto&#039;s case is a common and plain example of abuse, which shows clearly that what’s going on is not only a tit for tat game between political groups [3].  Since the above is a remarkably convenient explanation, and has been extensively used in order to distort facts (or by accident) [4], it is important to be cautious of how we name things and stick to the facts.  
I can understand the enthusiasm of antiauthoritarian minds, the vindication and pride that people who have been fighting for freedom and human rights feel while keeping up with the Greek resistance, but we should not be carried away by our identification with the arrested people (and all those who have been abused but not face trial) and naming them according to what they represent to us. Even though, for instance, the new Greek generation may inflame our hopes for a word-wide awaking and boost faith in our power against the brain-washing, fear-promoting establishments, it is misleading to politically define a revolt that has not been self-defined yet. Subjective views like “anarchists lead the way to a new era” or even “hundreds of schools occupied by groups of political-minded youngsters” (coming mainly by supporters in other countries) may give more grounds to those (like the representatives of the neo-Nazis in the Greek parliament or plenty of misinformed TV viewers across Europe) who insist that the mass uprising has been instigated by a minority with specific political views. 

Myrto’s case (among hundreds) is an attack on fundamental freedom.
It is important not to deform this. 

“Free the prisoners! Freedom to us all!…” [5]
Get independent doctors to monitor the policemen’s mental health!
Fuck the police! (They desperately need it.)






[1] 
A disgraceful case of police brutality, witnessed by dozens of people: Young man (during his Xmas leave from serving in the army) goes out with his girlfriend , gets smashed by a group of armed riot police in the middle of the street (where there was not even a protest going on), brought to the hospital and then to the police headquarters to be charged for throwing fire-bombs:
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&amp;article_id=950800
Police VS citizens (subtitles):
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KcQxdJzW3nU
Attack on random pedestrian, video taken from a flat: 
http://www.tvxs.gr/v1509 
Outrage of people while and after witnessing arrest of teenager by police: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-HwHx2bJsYQ&amp;NR=1
Another arbitrary arrest. People shout: He did not do anything! Leave the kid alone!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ywMn_KJmHYk
A moderate use of chemicals:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gOF9BGZjSSo
BBC news: 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7782907.stm
The “flower stand” case, named after the defence by the police who argued that the student hit himself. The trial of the terrorists (if you have got a more precise definition of the policemen in this case, please let me know) took place on December 16th 2008. They have not been detained, have not lost their jobs, they paid money and went home:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=39HEQUhhIXI
People trying to stop unreasonable arrests before a demonstration:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F61q2i4NPqE

[2] Petition online: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?pantelis&amp;51

[3] “Think of the bright side. We took you for 10 years younger; this is why we brought you here in the first place!” http://policeviolence.blogspot.com/2008/12/woman-arrested-and-attacked-by-greek.html 
(by the way, it is irrelevant, don’t take me wrong, but does anyone have an idea about what the new detention centres in USA are for?)

[4] E.g. Media rarely presented the riots and the murder in chronological order, the killed boy was defined as “young activist” (implying a political and potentially violent confrontation between him and his killer), there was a preference in showing specific colours, flags and symbols among demonstrators, and the continuous (&gt;18 days) upheaval made equal to the damages and looting that took place within the first 3 days, or to just the riots around the occupied polytechnic school of Athens (ongoing). Meanwhile, both the far-right and the Stalinist parties have explicitly blamed intellectuals and the left-greens for promoting violence.

[5] “… Stop watching! get out there!”: written on the banners raised by young protesters while being live broadcasted on December 16th after taking over the controls. This is what people watched on their TVs (nation-wide free reception): http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EtReIz5xWms</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All around Greece, there are thousand cases of people having been subjected to harassment and brutality by the Greek police (in police stations and on the streets, while going out or returning home, during non-violent demonstrations and concerts, war of words, war of eggs or war of stones), and at least hundreds have witnessed the police’s preference for attacking peaceful or underage protesters, passer-bys, and people with cameras. [1]</p>
<p>At this stage (December 25th), around 246 people face trial and 66 have been detained. At least 50 immigrants are to be deported and more than 50 are school students of which 17 &#8220;arrested under the terrorist act&#8221; (Larisa city) [2].</p>
<p>Myrto&#8217;s case is a common and plain example of abuse, which shows clearly that what’s going on is not only a tit for tat game between political groups [3].  Since the above is a remarkably convenient explanation, and has been extensively used in order to distort facts (or by accident) [4], it is important to be cautious of how we name things and stick to the facts.<br />
I can understand the enthusiasm of antiauthoritarian minds, the vindication and pride that people who have been fighting for freedom and human rights feel while keeping up with the Greek resistance, but we should not be carried away by our identification with the arrested people (and all those who have been abused but not face trial) and naming them according to what they represent to us. Even though, for instance, the new Greek generation may inflame our hopes for a word-wide awaking and boost faith in our power against the brain-washing, fear-promoting establishments, it is misleading to politically define a revolt that has not been self-defined yet. Subjective views like “anarchists lead the way to a new era” or even “hundreds of schools occupied by groups of political-minded youngsters” (coming mainly by supporters in other countries) may give more grounds to those (like the representatives of the neo-Nazis in the Greek parliament or plenty of misinformed TV viewers across Europe) who insist that the mass uprising has been instigated by a minority with specific political views. </p>
<p>Myrto’s case (among hundreds) is an attack on fundamental freedom.<br />
It is important not to deform this. </p>
<p>“Free the prisoners! Freedom to us all!…” [5]<br />
Get independent doctors to monitor the policemen’s mental health!<br />
Fuck the police! (They desperately need it.)</p>
<p>[1]<br />
A disgraceful case of police brutality, witnessed by dozens of people: Young man (during his Xmas leave from serving in the army) goes out with his girlfriend , gets smashed by a group of armed riot police in the middle of the street (where there was not even a protest going on), brought to the hospital and then to the police headquarters to be charged for throwing fire-bombs:<br />
<a href="http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&amp;article_id=950800" rel="nofollow">http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&amp;article_id=950800</a><br />
Police VS citizens (subtitles):<br />
<a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KcQxdJzW3nU" rel="nofollow">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KcQxdJzW3nU</a><br />
Attack on random pedestrian, video taken from a flat:<br />
<a href="http://www.tvxs.gr/v1509" rel="nofollow">http://www.tvxs.gr/v1509</a><br />
Outrage of people while and after witnessing arrest of teenager by police: <a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-HwHx2bJsYQ&amp;NR=1" rel="nofollow">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-HwHx2bJsYQ&amp;NR=1</a><br />
Another arbitrary arrest. People shout: He did not do anything! Leave the kid alone!<br />
<a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ywMn_KJmHYk" rel="nofollow">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ywMn_KJmHYk</a><br />
A moderate use of chemicals:<br />
<a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gOF9BGZjSSo" rel="nofollow">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gOF9BGZjSSo</a><br />
BBC news:<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7782907.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7782907.stm</a><br />
The “flower stand” case, named after the defence by the police who argued that the student hit himself. The trial of the terrorists (if you have got a more precise definition of the policemen in this case, please let me know) took place on December 16th 2008. They have not been detained, have not lost their jobs, they paid money and went home:<br />
<a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=39HEQUhhIXI" rel="nofollow">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=39HEQUhhIXI</a><br />
People trying to stop unreasonable arrests before a demonstration:<br />
<a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F61q2i4NPqE" rel="nofollow">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F61q2i4NPqE</a></p>
<p>[2] Petition online: <a href="http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?pantelis&amp;51" rel="nofollow">http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?pantelis&amp;51</a></p>
<p>[3] “Think of the bright side. We took you for 10 years younger; this is why we brought you here in the first place!” <a href="http://policeviolence.blogspot.com/2008/12/woman-arrested-and-attacked-by-greek.html" rel="nofollow">http://policeviolence.blogspot.com/2008/12/woman-arrested-and-attacked-by-greek.html</a><br />
(by the way, it is irrelevant, don’t take me wrong, but does anyone have an idea about what the new detention centres in USA are for?)</p>
<p>[4] E.g. Media rarely presented the riots and the murder in chronological order, the killed boy was defined as “young activist” (implying a political and potentially violent confrontation between him and his killer), there was a preference in showing specific colours, flags and symbols among demonstrators, and the continuous (&gt;18 days) upheaval made equal to the damages and looting that took place within the first 3 days, or to just the riots around the occupied polytechnic school of Athens (ongoing). Meanwhile, both the far-right and the Stalinist parties have explicitly blamed intellectuals and the left-greens for promoting violence.</p>
<p>[5] “… Stop watching! get out there!”: written on the banners raised by young protesters while being live broadcasted on December 16th after taking over the controls. This is what people watched on their TVs (nation-wide free reception): <a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EtReIz5xWms" rel="nofollow">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EtReIz5xWms</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Private Bailiffs to be given power to use force and violence to reclaim debts. by Blawg Review # 193 &#171; Charon QC&#8230;the blawg</title>
		<link>http://moon23.wordpress.com/2008/12/23/private-bailiffs-to-be-given-power-to-use-force-and-violence-to-reclaim-debts/#comment-1398</link>
		<dc:creator>Blawg Review # 193 &#171; Charon QC&#8230;the blawg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moon23.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-1398</guid>
		<description>[...] not to be proud about&#8230; Fellow Twitterer and blogger Disillusioned Discordian notes: Private Bailiffs to be given power to use force and violence to reclaim debts. &#8220;As Christmas comes the Government has a present for all the debt ridden British people. If [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] not to be proud about&#8230; Fellow Twitterer and blogger Disillusioned Discordian notes: Private Bailiffs to be given power to use force and violence to reclaim debts. &#8220;As Christmas comes the Government has a present for all the debt ridden British people. If [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jacqui &#8211; &#8220;I get by with a little help from my friends&#8221; by moon23</title>
		<link>http://moon23.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/jacqui-i-get-by-with-a-little-help-from-my-friends/#comment-1395</link>
		<dc:creator>moon23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moon23.wordpress.com/?p=430#comment-1395</guid>
		<description>Polytrick’s is the category, I had hoped he was paid for by the Labour party. Which was cringe worthy enough, but if he’s paid by the tax payer then what is their to be happy about! Not only is a minister employing their own family, but they are doing a rubbish job lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Polytrick’s is the category, I had hoped he was paid for by the Labour party. Which was cringe worthy enough, but if he’s paid by the tax payer then what is their to be happy about! Not only is a minister employing their own family, but they are doing a rubbish job lol</p>
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